Senator ABETZ (Tasmania—Leader of the Government in the Senate, Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service and Minister for Employment) (14:04): It is interesting how the Australian Labor Party are so exercised about cuts to the ABC because when the ALP are asked, when Mr Shorten is asked about what cuts he would make, his answer is, 'We haven't finalised our proposition for government.' When he was asked further, 'We don't think the cuts need to be as deep as they are. In other words, he understands that cuts need to be made to the ABC. Then he went on to say, 'We wouldn't be making the same extent of cuts to the ABC.' What mean and tricky language is that—'not to the same extent'? So tell us, to what extent, Senator Lundy, would the Australian Labor Party cut the ABC? Senator Moore: Mr President, I rise on a point of order as to direct relevance to the question that was asked. The question was about the Prime Minister's promise and the minister has gone nowhere near any comment about the Prime Minister. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Moore. I remind the minister of the question. He has 10 seconds left. Senator ABETZ: Even the Australian Labor Party leader, Mr Shorten, understands cuts need to be made. He is just too gutless to tell the Australian people how much. (Time expired) Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order!