Senator CASH (Western Australia—Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women) (14:29): I have a very succinct answer to the question, colleagues—and thank you, Senator Abetz. The answer to the question is: no. You see, if anyone is responsible for the penalty rates cut, it is you on the other side. You set up the independent Fair Work Commission, you chose the head of the commission, you gave the commission the terms of reference to actually look at whether or not penalty rates should be reduced. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my left! Senator Cash, please resume your seat. On a point of order, Senator Cameron? Senator Cameron: A point of order on relevance. The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron, the minister was being directly relevant to the question asked. Senator Cameron: You have not even heard my point of order. The PRESIDENT: It would be a stretch to define what the minister was saying as not relevant. I will hear you. Go ahead, Senator Cameron. Senator CAMERON: This is a point of order on relevance. The minister was asked about Bennelong. This serial misleader in the Senate— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron, resume your seat! The question, as asked, referred to a policy, as stated by the opposition, about the government. The minister was addressing that policy and is directly relevant to the question. It is not appropriate to make such an allegation or claim about another colleague in a point of order. Senator CASH: Colleagues, those on the other side support a bed and breakfast having to pay $10 more an hour than a five-star hotel. I'm going to back the small business. Those opposite support a family chicken shop having to pay $8 more an hour than KFC. I'm going to support the small business. They support a family-owned takeaway business having to pay $8 more an hour than McDonald's. We're going to support the small business. Those on the other side support a family greengrocer having to pay $5 more an hour than Woolworths. John Alexander, I think, is going to stand up for small business every time. (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator O'Neill, a final supplementary question.