Senator CASH (Western Australia—Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women) (14:25): Yes. Because, you see, that is what the Fair Work Commission itself found—that there would be an increase in employment. I have to say, though, the hypocrisy of those opposite— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my left! Senator CASH: when there is one person in the parliament who you can clearly label as having a reputation as someone who goes out there and slashes and burns the penalty rates of low-paid workers in Australia. Colleagues, give me a name. Government senators: Bill Shorten! Senator CASH: The current Leader of the Opposition, Bill Shorten. We all know what Mr Shorten did before he entered parliament. As head of the AWU— The PRESIDENT: Order! Point of order. Senator Cash, please resume your seat. Senator O'Neill, on a point of order? Senator O'Neill: Thank you, Mr President. I will try to be creative in my request for relevance. There is an entire industry employer group that employs a significant number of Australians—the restaurant and cafe industry. The PRESIDENT: Senator O'Neill, what is the point of order? Senator O'Neill: The minister is not answering the question. The PRESIDENT: Senator O'Neill, your question had a substantial preamble that referred to a number of historic examples and matters of public debate. The minister is being relevant to the entire question, as asked. Senator Cash. Senator CASH: Thank you. As I was saying, before he entered parliament, Mr Shorten made a living out of slashing and burning the penalty rates of the lowest-paid workers in Australia. I was going to talk about Cleanevent, but we can also talk Chiquita Mushrooms. What Mr Shorten used to do is what those on the other side stand up here and try to defend. They will always come into this place, colleagues, and they will defend until the day they die the right of the union movement— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Hinch is on his feet on a point of order. I think I can probably guess what it is, Senator Hinch. Senator Hinch: You know exactly what it is, Mr President. The PRESIDENT: In that case, again, we've had another request—I nearly had one earlier from that end of the chamber—that they can't hear the question and, in this case, the answer. Can colleagues please keep that in mind during their disorderly interjections. Senator Cash. Senator CASH: Thank you, Mr President. Those on the other side and Mr Shorten, in particular, given the stunt yesterday, will always defend the right of unions to enter into deals with big business to suit themselves and to cut the penalty rates of the lowest-paid workers in Australia. But when the independent Fair Work Commission that was set up by those opposite—and Bill Shorten gave them the terms of reference in relation to the penalty rates case—brings down a decision that gives small businesses in Australia a small break, those on the other side revert exactly to type. They back big business and big unions doing deals to cut penalty rates over small business any day of the week. The PRESIDENT: Senator O'Neill, a supplementary question. Senator Cameron interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron! Your colleague is on her feet.