Senator SCULLION (Northern Territory—Minister for Indigenous Affairs and Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) (15:02): Budget paper No. 2 will provide a little bit more information for the senator. If you look carefully, the $409 million had a contribution of $355 million, of which $239 million was a save but the other $115 million came back into the budget in terms of our savings. So it was not the $409 million figure. I indicated in an earlier answer that these savings of $239 million are because of the new adjustments in streamlining the programs. This can be saved through making sure that the red tape, inefficiencies and bureaucracy are streamlined. We think a 4.5 per cent cut is a modest cut. It is a modest cut not only in the context of the budget task in front of us but also because, as many in here— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! When there is silence we will proceed. If you wish to debate it, at the end of question time you have half an hour to debate these issues. When there is silence I will call Senator Scullion to continue. Senator SCULLION: I am confident that that 4.5 per cent saving can be harvested from efficiencies. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I will not give you the call, Senator Moore, until there is silence. Senator Moore: Mr President, my point of order is on relevance. The particular question asked what frontline programs and services will be cut. Could the minister actually respond to that part of the question? The PRESIDENT: The minister is responding to the question. The minister has 42 seconds remaining. Senator SCULLION: As I was about to get to, we will not be having any impact on the ground to frontline services. We believe that the harvest of efficiencies through administration can be there. There will be no impact on the ground. I say that with confidence because, due to the complete mess in this area by those opposite, we have plenty of areas of incompetence, mismanagement, red tape and over-bureaucratisation in this area and we can cop the 4.5 per cent and we can harvest that without any impact on the ground to services.