Senator CORMANN (Western Australia—Minister for Finance) (14:31): I completely reject that last assertion, but let me just make this point: this is a budget which ensures that today's generation funds its own costs. When it comes to education, what we are doing is pursuing a very exciting reform in higher education. We do not have a single university right now in the world's top 20. We want to have a university in the top 20 in the world. We should have a university in the top 20 in the world. Opposition senators interjecting— Government senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cormann, once again resume your seat. Senator Kim Carr: You think that's what's going to do it? Paying off your mates on the North Shore? Senator Ronaldson interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Carr. Senator Ronaldson. Debating this across the chamber now does not assist question time at all. After three o'clock is the time to debate it. Senator Cormann is entitled to be heard in silence. Senator Cormann. Senator CORMANN: The voice of Pyongyang clearly doesn't understand about the free market! They are good at interjecting even though they do not know how to ask a question. We are making sure that universities are able to compete by deregulating fees. Some fees might go up, but a lot of fees will go down, and there will be more opportunity for students across Australia, who are able to borrow 100 per cent of the costs from the taxpayer.