Senator AYRES (New South Wales—Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science) (14:18): The conference in Turkiye is a diplomatic triumph for Australia. That's what it is. The costs for that will be determined in the normal way. Senator McKenzie: How much? Senator AYRES: You know, Senator McKenzie— The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, I have appealed to you not to call out and not to interject. You've asked your questions. I'll listen for the minister's answer. Senator AYRES: I've answered in relation to costs for this. I'll tell you the costs that I'm concerned about. Mr Joyce, a former member of the National Party, under you lot claimed six hundred and— Senator Cadell: Did we miss that? Senator AYRES: It's a matter of time. He claimed $675,000. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie? Senator McKenzie: The minister has been misrepresenting— The PRESIDENT: What's the point of order? Senator McKenzie: Barnaby Joyce— The PRESIDENT: That's a debating point. What is the point of order? Senator McKenzie: who is still a member of the National Party. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, I have asked senators many times not to use points of order as some sort of way to make a personal statement. If you had stood and asked me to direct the minister back to the question, I would have gladly done so, and I intend to draw the minister back to the question. That would have been an appropriate point of order. Minister Ayres, please go back to the question. Senator AYRES: As I said, I've dealt with the question of costs. I understand that his ambiguous party membership status is a challenge for you. He's in the National Party and out of the National Party; he determines the National Party's policy approach and now he determines the Liberal Party's policy approach—in and out, the sort of Schrodinger's member for New England. He copped $675,000 in the pocket for being the special envoy, and he produced two text messages. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Minister. The time for answering has expired. Senator Faruqi. Senator McKenzie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: We have now moved on. I called Senator Faruqi. Senator Faruqi.