Senator ABETZ (Tasmania—Leader of the Government in the Senate, Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service and Minister for Employment) (14:00): As anybody who has been in this chamber even a nanosecond would know, these decisions are for the ABC to make in relation to staffing and in relation to programing. So it is not for the government to confirm anything in relation to the ABC savings that we are seeking to pursue for and on behalf of the Australian taxpayer. What we are seeking to do is get our budget situation back into shape. It is vitally important that that occurs, because— The PRESIDENT: Minister, the Clerk has not set the clock. Minister, you may now continue. Senator ABETZ: Mr President, undoubtedly the Clerk was so enthralled by my commencement that she overlooked to turn on the clock. The country has a serious situation that needs to be dealt with. We are borrowing $1,000 million per month just to pay the interest on the existing borrowings racked up by those on the other side. While those on the other side were in government they demanded efficiency dividends from national security bodies. They required efficiency dividends from health and from education. But do you know what? They never required them from the ABC. Some people might have their theories as to that. We, nevertheless, say that it is appropriate for the ABC to seek savings, to seek if they can spend the taxpayers' money in a better manner and ensure good return for the taxpayers' dollars. So when the Australian Labor Party come into this place and champion increased spending for anything, I say to the Australian people and to this chamber: ask yourself one question—where does the money come from? It comes from the pockets of our fellow Australians. That is why any good government has to manage the economy in a sound manner. (Time expired) Senator Wong: The Prime Minister is a liar. Senator Abetz: That should be withdrawn. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, you have to withdraw that. Senator Wong: You are asking me to withdraw? The PRESIDENT: What you just said, Senator Wong. You need to withdraw. Senator Wong: I withdraw. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Wong. An opposition senator: The Prime Minister is a liar. The PRESIDENT: Order! Don't repeat it.