Senator WONG (South Australia—Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate and Minister for Finance and Deregulation) (14:13): I am asked about debt. It is important to recognise a couple of things. The first is that all the debt figures are published, in the usual way, in the budget papers. The second point I would make is that, despite the fear campaign from Senator Joyce—although I notice that Mr Hockey is now trying to tone his rhetoric down a little—Australia's debt remains very low by international standards. Our net debt peaks at 11.4 per cent of GDP, which is about one-eighth of the average of the advanced economies. In other words, the debt of the major advanced economies is on average eight times greater than Australia's. So I think it is an important economic fact to get into the discussion, because there is a lot of economic fiction, particularly from Senator Joyce, that gets put into the debate. Senator Joyce: Mr President, I have a point of order on relevance. The question is quite clear. It asked what the gross debt will be at the end of each financial year. However, what we seem to be getting is percentages and analogies. Now the minister might not know the answer. That is all right. Just tell her— The PRESIDENT: That is now debating it. You have taken your point of order. I believe the minister is answering the question. The minister has 59 seconds remaining. Senator WONG: I know that Senator Joyce is conducting a one-man campaign to change the OECD's, the IMF's and the generally accepted economic metric by which economies measure their indebtedness. I wish him luck in that, but I do not agree with it. The reality is that net debt is a sensible way for governments— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong, can you just hold on for a moment. Senator Joyce is interjecting at the other end of the chamber and there are people interjecting in between. Order! Senator WONG: Net debt begins to fall as a per cent of GDP from 2015-16 and will reach zero in 2021-22. In terms of CGS on issue, I would remind the senator that the value of CGS on issue in the budget papers, because of the accounting standards, is the market value. Commonwealth government securities on issue is the market value, and that is what is reflected in the budget papers.