Mr SWAN (Lilley—Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer) (14:03): He is just showing how ignorant he is of this area of public policy. The effective carbon price for trade exposed industries is $1.30 in this country. We have put in place a scheme for trade exposed industries to absolutely secure their future. Honourable members interjecting— The SPEAKER: The Treasurer has the call and has the right to be heard in silence. Mr SWAN: It does not matter if we are talking about the carbon price and it does not matter if we are talking about levels of debt, those opposite are at war with the facts—they are at war with the 21st century, in fact. They are not interested in taking action against dangerous climate change. There has been a sea change among those opposite when it comes to this critical question of dealing with dangerous climate change, much to the embarrassment of the member for Wentworth. We on this side of the House have had the courage to put in place a long-term reform which will drive investment in renewable energy and energy efficiency. Mr Hockey: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order on relevance. I asked the Treasurer how he reconciles the price of carbon permits equivalent in China at around $5 a tonne with those in Australia at $24 a tonne. The SPEAKER: The member for North Sydney will resume his seat. The Treasurer has the call. Mr SWAN: We have put in place a scheme which is the most cost-effective way of pricing carbon. Those opposite simply do not understand either the economics or the science of dangerous climate change. We on this side of the House do. We understand the importance also of the renewable energy target and having our economy driven by renewable energy and more energy efficient practices. They are just demonstrating their ignorance and unfitness for high office.