Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Human Services) (14:26): I very sincerely thank Senator Cameron for that question. It has only taken 18 months, 23 Senate sitting weeks, 86 Senate question times and 367 opposition questions without notice that for Senator Cameron to have whatever modicum of intestinal fortitude it requires to stand up in this place and ask me one question. Government senators interjecting— Senator PAYNE: And I am extraordinarily grateful! Senator Cameron: Mr President— The PRESIDENT: Order on my right! I think I can anticipate what your point of order is going to be, Senator Cameron. Minister, please come to the question. Senator PAYNE: I understand that Senator Lines is moving further down the chamber and encroaching on Senator Cameron. She has his back—there is no question about that. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: To the question, please, Minister. Senator PAYNE: I think that 18 months, 23 Senate sitting weeks, 86— Senator Wong: On a point of order, Mr President: the minister has been on her feet for some time. She just flagrantly ignored your direction to her to return to the question—or your reminder to her. She may not have noticed, in her desire to run through the statistics she keeps, that the question is about welfare recipients and the high cost of credit arrangements. These are important matters and we would appreciate it if she responded to them. The PRESIDENT: Minister, I do draw your attention to the question and I ask that you do come to the question. Senator PAYNE: I actually think it is extremely important to place on the record the complete lack of focus of the shadow minister on his portfolio. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Minister, to the question, please. Senator PAYNE: It is about time that Senator Cameron actually participated genuinely. Is he taking pay for this job, Mr President? Senator Wong: Mr President— The PRESIDENT: Minister! Senator Wong, I think I can deal with this. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my left! On both sides! Senator Wong: He is the president! He has told you three times. You're behaving like a student politician, Marise! Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order, on my right and on my left! Order! Senator Payne, I will ask you to address the question. I know we allow some preamble. That has gone on for too long. I would draw your attention to the question and ask that you address the question. Senator Payne. Senator PAYNE: I am very happy to address the 368th question without notice from the Labor opposition in this chamber, and the first from the shadow minister for human services on the portfolio human services. In relation to Centrepay and the question raised by the shadow minister, I repeat: we have worked over some period of time to better protect the recipients of Centrelink payments who are engaged with Centrepay undertakings. We have a number of agreements with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and the Australian Energy Regulator, which particularly enabled Centrelink to exchange information about the businesses that participate in Centrepay. As well— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Cameron on a point of order. Senator Cameron: Mr President, I raise a point of order on relevance. I was asking about the cost of these rented pieces of equipment that are three to five times the value of the goods that are being rented. The minister has not gone anywhere near that question. The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron, you had a number of points and then the final part of your question was, 'Can the minister confirm that this is correct?' I think the minister is addressing components of your preamble to your question. Senator PAYNE: Of course, what Senator Cameron fails to say in his answer is that the arrangements, I might note, were introduced by the previous government. I would note that the report Senator Cameron referred to is not a report of government— (Time expired) Senator Jacinta Collins: How many days have you been minister? Senator PAYNE: Longer than you. The PRESIDENT: Senator Collins! You are not to interject. Senator Back interjecting— The PRESIDENT: And nor are you, Senator Back. Senator Cameron, a supplementary question.