Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Human Services) (14:45): I thank the senator for her question. The question relates to the government's planned introduction of a co-payment. The government are quite clear that this is a move on our part to make Medicare a sustainable system. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Payne is entitled to be heard in silence. Senator PAYNE: For example, MBS expenditure has been growing for many years now at an unsustainable rate. Ten years ago— Senator Wong: Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. I do appreciate that the minister is a minister representing today. It was a very specific question in relation to a pregnant woman in the low-risk category and the payments that she would face for antenatal visits. I would ask the minister to return to the substance of the question. The PRESIDENT: I am listening closely to the minister's answer. The minister still has a minute and 22 seconds. There is no point of order at this stage. Senator PAYNE: As I understood it, the senator's question related to the introduction of a co-payment and the payment of that sum by individuals such as the one that the senator evidenced. What I was saying was that 10 years ago we were spending $8 billion on the MBS. That is a significant amount. Today it is $19 billion and in a decade it will be $34 billion. The government's decision to introduce the co-payment to which the senator refers— Senator Urquhart: Mr President, on a point of order in relation to relevance, my question was: can the minister confirm that a woman will be hit with a $7 GP tax each time she attends a doctor over that nine-month period? That was my question. I would ask the minister to answer it. The PRESIDENT: I now do draw the minister's attention to the question. There are 47 seconds remaining. Senator PAYNE: As I said, that is a modest contribution which we are asking Australians to pay for the cost of their own health care. It is a contribution which people like Dr Andrew Leigh, the shadow Assistant Treasurer, have said previously in writing that they support. I quote from Dr Leigh: As economists have shown, the ideal model involves a small co-payment—not enough to put a dent in your weekly budget, but enough to make you think twice before you call the doc. And the idea is hardly radical.