Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Australia—Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Science and Research and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:27): We can debate the detail of the legislation when it comes into the parliament, but the basis of the Houston report and the amendments we are pursuing is to shift the balance of risk and incentive. It is very much about trying to shift that balance and lead to something that will favour regular migration pathways. There is no question that some of the implementation arrangements of this program will have to be followed— Government senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my right! An opposition senator: No principles, Doug! You've got no principles! Senator Cameron: With a bit of common sense it would not be on the table! The PRESIDENT: Order! When there is silence on both sides we will proceed. Order! Senator Cameron! Senator CHRIS EVANS: The key point I am trying to make is that the report sought to give effect to two key principles, in my view. One is the no-advantage principle, which is that there be no advantage, in seeking to come here by boat, over the processing arrangements that would apply more generally before people undertook that journey, and the other is the principle that we ought to be hard-headed but not hard-hearted. Senator Milne: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. The minister is representing the Prime Minister. The legislation is in the House of Representatives. We are entitled to hear an answer. Is it or is it not 10 years of indefinite detention? The PRESIDENT: There is no point of order. There are two seconds remaining. The minister will respond to any further supplementary question, if there is one.