Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Finance and Deregulation) (14:13): I thank the senator for his question and I congratulate him on having a small win over the Liberals on foreign investments. I do not agree with it, but I congratulate him on his win, although I did notice that Mr Hockey went back pretty hard at Senator Nash and put her in her place. Senator Joyce: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. It is obviously on relevance. Her answer has not dealt in any way, shape or form with the question, although she might want to address it to the Labor Party, who have been rolled on their position on immigration. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, you have one minute 40 seconds to address the question, and you should address the question that has been asked by Senator Joyce. Senator WONG: Thank you, Mr President. I am very happy to address the question. As the senator would know, because he has asked me questions about gross debt and net debt previously, gross debt peaked as a percentage of GDP in 2011-12. Net debt peaks as a percentage of GDP at 9.6 per cent. This is, of course, at about one-tenth of the level of the major advanced economies. We start paying down gross and net debt as a percentage of GDP this year, and net interest payments in this financial year, according to the budget figures, would be about one-half of one per cent of GDP. We have laid out our figures very clearly. They are in the budget. They are accounted for. That, of course, puts us in stark contrast to a coalition that have never once under this economic team—including under Senator Joyce for the short period he was in this position in opposition—got their costings right. If you want to look at what an Abbott government would have to do in order to balance the books, go to the home state of the senator. Go to Queensland and have a look at Premier Newman. Senator Cormann: You never once got your budget right! There's been a $34 billion blow-out in debt! The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Cormann, I draw to your attention that Senator Joyce is on his feet. Senator Joyce: Thank you. Once more I raise a point of order on relevance. The question asked why the debt has gone up by $5 billion in seven weeks if they are telling us they are going to have a $1½ billion surplus by the end of the year. She has not answered it. The PRESIDENT: The minister is answering the question. The minister has 35 seconds remaining to answer the question. Senator WONG: I do not know how to explain it to Senator Joyce. I have given him the figures on gross and net debt. I have given them to him on previous occasions. It is true that there is obviously an issue about a stock of debt that he would be aware of. He is an accountant; I am sure he would understand the difference between stock and flow. But the relevant figures for the purposes of assessing the strength of Australia's public finances are gross and net debt positions, and I have outlined those. (Time expired)