Senator WATT (Queensland—Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and Minister for Emergency Management) (14:56): Unlike Senator Cash, I never question the independence of our judiciary and I don't grossly politicise judicial type bodies like Senator Cash did among her colleagues with the AAT, for instance. We do believe in an independent judiciary, and I have no reason to disagree with any decision of any court. But what I do know, again, is that I am absolutely gobsmacked that Senator Cash, of all people, would come into this chamber and talk about lawlessness, the rule of law and compliance with the law when her office infamously leaked a police raid on the AWU and was caught— The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham. Senator Birmingham: President, a point of order on a matter of relevance. The standing orders are very clear about the need for direct relevance. Senator Watt, on this occasion, is straying well beyond any relevance to the question that was posed. He's clearly reflecting upon another senator in this place and reflecting upon actions of a previous government—not being relevant to this question. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I'll remind Senator Watt to be directly relevant to the question, which was about the judicial system and the CFMMEU. Senator WATT: I'll leave it to you to rule, President, but I think that I was directly relevant to the initial question. And, as I say, all I can say is that, of every single person over on that side—and I know there are not as many as there used to be—there is no-one less qualified to talk about the independence of the judiciary, about the rule of law or about lawlessness than Senator Cash. She became notorious across this country for ignoring the rule of law— The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt— Senator WATT: for her office leaking police information to the media. The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt! Senator Birmingham. Senator Birmingham: Again, President, Senator Watt is reflecting on another senator in this place. Senator Watt is not being relevant to the question which relates to the actions of the ABCC on 80 occasions successfully bringing proceedings to court. He is making general reflections— The PRESIDENT: Senator Birmingham, it's not appropriate to repeat the question. Senator Birmingham: I wasn't repeating the whole question, President— The PRESIDENT: I understand your point is on relevance about the answer that Senator Watt's giving, and that's what I'll consider. Thank you. Senator Wong. Senator Wong: On the point of order, if the assertion is that there have been reflections on a senator, Senator Cash has an opportunity under the standing orders to remedy that. If she wishes to take that, we'll be very happy to facilitate that discussion. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Wong. Senator McGrath: Point of order! The PRESIDENT: No. Sit down, please, Senator McGrath. Senator McGrath: Do you want to know what my point of order is? The PRESIDENT: Senator McGrath, please resume your seat. Senator McGrath: So you're saying I'm not entitled to make a point of order? The PRESIDENT: Senator McGrath, please resume your seat. I'm going to go to the point raised by Senator Birmingham on the issue of direct relevance. If Senator Watt was straying—and I think he was—he does need to be directly relevant. Senator McGrath, I would appreciate it if, in future, when I ask you to sit, you sit. I made no decision whether I would entertain your point of order or not. If your point of order is different to Senator Birmingham's, I would ask you to raise that now. Senator McGrath: On a point of order, I would like Senator Watt to withdraw the comment that he made about Senator Cash. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator McGrath. He made no assertion directly about— Opposition senators: He did! Senator WATT: May I seek clarification: is the item that you would like me to withdraw that there is no-one less qualified on your side to talk about lawlessness? The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt, please resume your seat. Senator McGrath interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong? Senator Wong: I am unclear on what is being sought and if Senator Cash is asking for a withdrawal. I appreciate Senator McGrath's point—he doesn't want the words to which he's reacted to be repeated—but I don't actually know which point he wants withdrawn. The general approach I would like us to take is that, if people wish something to be withdrawn, unless there are very compelling reasons not to, as a matter of courtesy in this chamber, we should do so. But I'm genuinely unclear as to which— Sen ator Henderson: Penny, come on! Senator Wong: No, there's been a lot of political argy-bargy. Some things have been said by the senator behind you which I have ignored. If Senator Cash wishes something withdrawn, as a matter of courtesy I'll ask the minister to do so. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Wong. Senator Watt, I will ask you not to repeat comments you made, but, if you believe you made comments directly related to Senator Cash, then I would ask you to consider to withdraw those. Senator WATT: I withdraw. The PRESIDENT: Thank you. You have 11 seconds remaining. Senator WATT: As I say, this government makes no apologies for consulting both unions and business about important workplace relations reforms. The former government didn't do it. They don't understand the need to do so. (Time expired) Senator Wong: I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.