Senator RUSTON (South Australia—Minister for Families and Social Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate) (14:15): I thank Senator Brown for her question in relation to deeming rates. The government was pleased to make an announcement on 14 July about reducing deeming rates so that they were brought more in line with the kinds of returns that retirees and self-funded and partial pensioners were receiving on the suite of investments and financial assets that they had available to them. As I said at the announcement, it would range for people—up to $1,053 for couples and $804 for singles each year. That would be the amount for somebody who was on the maximum amount of deeming before they were no longer eligible for the aged pension. So right the way through the whole spectrum, from getting just $1 right the way through to singles getting $804 and couples getting $1,053, there are nearly a million Australians who benefit by the reduction in the deeming rates. That reduction actually is about to take effect now and is backdated to 1 July. Our pensioners who are affected by deeming will actually feel the benefit of that when they get their— Senator Carol Brown: A point of order on relevance: my question was very clear. I appreciate the information that the minister has told the Senate, but the question is: how many, out of Australia's 2.5 million pensioners, will actually get anything like $800? The PRESIDENT: I cannot instruct the minister how to answer a question. The minister is talking directly about the subject matter of the question. I believe she's being directly relevant. There was in the minister's answer, only shortly before your point of order, an observation about numbers of people, but I can't instruct the minister how to answer a question. I believe the minister in this case is being directly relevant. Senator Wong, on a point of order? Senator Wong: On the point of order: whilst that is the case, you can remind the minister of the question in appropriate circumstances, and I note that you have done so previously. The PRESIDENT: Senator Brown has reminded the minister of the nature of her question. In this case I believe the minister is being directly relevant. I've given the senator an opportunity to restate the question. Senator RUSTON: Of the over 2.5 million Australians who are pensioners, about 900,000 of that 2.5-plus million pensioners will actually be impacted on deeming within the spectrum of the rates that I've said. What I would also say, for those opposite as an explanation about how deeming rates actually work, is that they actually work at a point in time. People's financial assets often will change from time to time, so from one fortnight to the next fortnight there could be a different number of people who would be impacted to the maximum amount or a different amount. So there is no one particular answer that you're able to give. What I will say is that there is a spectrum from $1 to $804 and people will fall within that. The PRESIDENT: Senator Brown, a supplementary question?