Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:13): Of course, a lot of corporate entities, companies and, indeed, some countries will promise the sun and the moon in order to get a very big and lucrative contract like this. Senator Kim Carr: We know how to fix that! The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator JOHNSTON: The top end requirements for our submarine capability are well known across the board, but can I say that we have not made a decision with respect to submarines. Senator Wong: The Prime Minister has. Senator JOHNSTON: There will be a first- and second-pass process. Senator Cameron: No more promises! The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Cameron! Senator JOHNSTON: As the head of the DMO has said, we have engaged many countries with respect to this highly-complex and difficult program. Indeed, Germany was one of them. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I pause to say that one of the top end requirements is for a tonnage in a submarine of 3,400 tonnes. This is beyond what Collins now is. The Germans, of course, have never built a submarine of those dimensions. That is a very important consideration, and we will engage with TKMS as to what proposals they have and will put on the table. A vital part of that will be where the build is to take place and what cost there is in acquiring our submarine capability. In the last 12 months we have been working assiduously to perfect and to finalise our top end requirements so that we can engage these companies and get the best capability for our Navy. That, at the end of the day, is what this is all about.