Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:04): Mr Greenfield may well be right that they can be arranged that way, but I have to tell you that the government, given the delay, has very limited schedule options available to it because of the complete lack of work done by Labor. I happened to see Mr Swan this morning talking about the threat to national security of not building submarines in Australia. He was himself the single greatest threat to national security— Senator Wong interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Wong, your manager is on her feet wishing to take a point of order. Senator Moore: Mr President, I rise on a point of order, again, on direct relevance. I would ask you to draw the attention of this minister to the question that was asked. The PRESIDENT: The minister was asked by Senator Wong, 'Why is the government ignoring advice?' The minister was going on to explain the advice. He has 31 seconds left to answer the question. Senator JOHNSTON: I should also say that there are many people who are giving gratuitous advice in this space who were retained by Defence South Australia. Independent, objective advice is very, very hard to find in this space. That is because I refuse to be drawn by people who are paid to give certain specific answers. I will rely on the defence chief to tell me which way we should go. (Time expired)