Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:15): I have had a number of meetings with Terry Roach and former Admiral Peter Briggs over the last five years at the Submarine Institute. I know them both very well and respect them highly. What they are saying, Senator, is that Australia has specific requirements for its submarine capability. I would have thought my knowing that in opposition would have meant you would have done something about those specific requirements, you would have actually put pen to paper and drawn up some plans, you would have had a concept, you would have had an idea, you would have actually done some work—but, no. The slate is perfectly blank. I have a clean sheet of paper to work with. Senator Conroy: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I asked a very specific question about the capability and what the minister and the Prime Minister know about submarine capability that these two submarine experts do not. I ask you to draw him to the question. The PRESIDENT: Senator Conroy, that was the second part of your question; the first part was: 'is the minister aware?' He stated quite clearly that he is aware, and he was making some commentary. Minister, you have the call. Senator JOHNSTON: In this space, everybody is an expert on submarines. Indeed, Senator Conroy purports to be an expert on submarines. I wonder where he was in the last five years. I do know that he was building an NBN at great expense to the management. (Time expired)