Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:12): We are engaging a number of countries with respect to recovering this program that has had nothing done on it for six years. That is because the previous government simply shut the file and did absolutely nothing. We have been confronting a capability gap, so we are using our best endeavours to work out what will benefit the Royal Australian Navy's capability into the future. The reason we are able to do this is that there is not even a contract. There is not even an obligation or a commitment from the former government over five or six years to do anything with respect to submarines. You have left us in a position where we are confronting a capability gap such that we must as a first priority address that scheduling issue. Indeed, many on your side know that. Senator Wong: Mr President, I rise on a point of order on direct relevance. The question went specifically to whether or not consideration had been given to the suitability of a Japanese designed submarine to meet Australian requirements. It is a very important question, and I would ask the minister to return to the substance of the question. The PRESIDENT: There were two parts to Senator Conroy's question. The first was: 'Is the minister aware …,' and then there was some commentary about that. The second part was: 'What does the Prime Minister and defence minister know?' It is quite a broad question and the minister is answering the question. Senator JOHNSTON: What we do know is that urgent action is required on what is probably Australia's most complex defence procurement. Senator Conroy interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Conroy, are you reflecting on the chair? Senator Conroy: Not at all. The PRESIDENT: Thank you. If you go and read Hansard you will find I am correct. Senator Conroy interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Conroy, you are sailing very close to the wind. Senator JOHNSTON: This program is one of Australia's most important defence acquisitions. For me to find that nothing had been done in five years reflects very, very poorly on all of those press releases that the Labor Party issued in Adelaide prior to the last election. Indeed, they were very good at launching press releases but not too good at launching submarines. They prevaricated. They shut the file. Indeed, many people on your side know that there was to be no work done while they ripped the submarine program off and took all the money in a forlorn pursuit of a surplus budget. (Time expired)