Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Human Services) (14:32): Thank you, Senator Muir, for your supplementary question. That is a very important question and it is one that has been raised consistently with the government since the package was introduced through the budget process. We are very interested in the views of those who are prepared to have a sensible conversation about this— Senator Kim Carr: What about an answer? Senator PAYNE: Those who choose to scream from the rooftops, perhaps not. As you know, at the moment student debts are indexed by the CPI. Our proposal is to increase it to the 10-year bond rate. The reason for that is that the bond rate is the same as what it costs the government to borrow the money that it lends to students in the first place. On budget night though the minister did announce two working groups on the higher education issues. The first on legislation and financing is being chaired by Professor John Dewar, the Vice-Chancellor of La Trobe University. They have considered a number of options on the interest rate on student debt and in fact have proposed three alternatives to the government's measure. They are summarised in the regulation impact statement to the reform bill. (Time expired)