Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:04): We were bequeathed two options: son of Collins and a whole new design. When we opened the lid on submarines, as a new government must do, you know what we found in the box? Zero—a round number before one. They had done nothing. Senator Moore: Mr President, again my point of order is on direct relevance. There was a single question about whether the minister will rule out purchasing Japanese submarines for Australian's new submarine fleet. That was the only question that was asked. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Moore. The minister has 25 seconds left to answer the question, and I remind the minister of the question. Senator JOHNSTON: Not only had they done nothing about submarines; in the forward estimates out to 2030 they had taken $20 billion out of the future submarine program. Senator Wong: Mr President, my point of order is on direct relevance. The question was very simple: Will the minister rule out purchasing Japanese submarines for Australia's new submarine fleet? Yes or no? The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, your question had a longer preamble than just that simple statement. The minister has been reminded of the question, and I invite the minister to continue with his answer. Senator JOHNSTON: There are many options for diesel electric submarine operators: DCNS at Cherbourg in France; TKMS at Kiel in Germany; and—(Time expired)