Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:00): I thank the senator for what is a very, very important and crucial question for Australia's future strategic defence capacity. Submarines are our most significant and important strategic deterrent. Since the Labor Party gave us the Collins class submarine on the basis that it would be very cheap to maintain and very reliable, we have done nothing more than spend $1 billion a year for one or two submarines being available every year. The point about this is that we do not want to make the same mistakes that the Labor Party has bequeathed to us with submarines. Submarines are, as I said, extremely important to us and a vital strategic deterrent. For a country like Australia, where a very large percentage of our economic exports are on the water—which must go through three choke points—sea denial is essential. Submarines are absolutely fundamental to our defence capability. We have said, firstly—and these are our promises—that there will be no capability gap between the transition out of the very troubled Collins class— Senator Moore: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. My point of order is on direct relevance. It was a very specific question. It was about the promise of building 12 new submarines in Adelaide. We would like to have a response to that question. The PRESIDENT: The minister has been addressing a portion of the question, and I remind the minister of the question. He has 30 seconds to answer the question. Senator JOHNSTON: We have promised for this vital strategic capability that there will be no capability gap. We will have new— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Pause the clock. Senator Cameron: How about South Australia and South Australian jobs? You are pathetic. The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Cameron! Senator Wong: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. The minister has avoided the question for almost the entire time. There was one question only: Is the commitment to build 12 new submarines in Adelaide still the government's position? That is the only question that was asked. He should answer the question and tell South Australians the truth. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, there was a point of order just a short while ago and the minister was barely on his feet when there was a second point of order. The minister has been reminded of the question. The minister has 14 seconds left. Senator JOHNSTON: This government takes defence seriously. This government has guaranteed no capability gap between the Collins class and—(Time expired)