Senator RONALDSON (Victoria—Minister for Veterans' Affairs, Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Centenary of ANZAC and Special Minister of State) (14:07): I will tell you what I will not be doing. What I will not be doing is running around this country telling gold and white cardholders that they will pay the $7-copayment, which the shadow minister has been doing. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I am waiting to give Senator Moore the call as Senator Moore is on her feet. Senator Moore: Mr President, I rise on a point of order: relevance. These were two very direct questions about specific savings and about whether the minister had written to the veterans who will be affected by the payment loss. The PRESIDENT: The minister has still 46 seconds remaining, and I do draw the minister's attention to the question. Senator RONALDSON: The question was about savings. What I am saying to the chamber is that the cross portfolio requirements that we were faced with to try and bring this nation's finances back into some semblance of order required some decisions not that we desired to make but which we had no choice to make. The Australian Labor Party— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Moore is on her feet. Senator Moore: Mr President, I rise on a point of order: relevance. It was a specific question about the cost. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Moore is trying to take a point of order. Senator Moore: The question was about the cost. The minister has 17 seconds and I do not want to miss this opportunity to get the answer. The PRESIDENT: Order! I drew the minister's attention to the question at the 46 second mark and I do so again. Government senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! On my left. The minister has the call. Senator RONALDSON: Senator Brown interjected before, 'You did not have to.' Senator Brown, what I will say to you in relation to this matter— Government senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Resume your seat. On my left. Before calling the next questioner, I draw to the attention of honourable senators the presence in the gallery of a former president of the Senate, Alan Ferguson.