Senator SCULLION (Northern Territory—Minister for Indigenous Affairs and Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) (14:17): Again, just for clarity: the cuts across programs in my portfolio is in fact $239 million, not the $400-odd million the senator suggests. I reiterate that, across all of these programs, there is sufficient bureaucracy, red tape and mismanagement—which we saw characterised in the period of time that those opposition were in government—that I am very confident that the 4.5 per cent— Senator Moore: Mr President, my point of order is on relevance. The particular question was about the Indigenous Employment Program and the Indigenous Capability and Development Program. I would ask you, Mr President, to draw the attention of the minister to those programs. The PRESIDENT: That is not a point of order at this stage. The minister has been going for 29 seconds and has 31 seconds remaining. Senator SCULLION: The two programs that were mentioned are of course part of my programs, and my reference to those is included. They will be subject to more or less 4.5 per cent savings. We believe those savings will be made in those programs. We are still waiting on the Forrest report, which will deal substantively with Aboriginal and Islander employment and engagement, and in the months coming we will have more to say on that. I would like to commend Mr Forrest on his excellent work.