Senator BOB CARR (New South Wales—Minister for Foreign Affairs) (14:13): The question implies I should relate this to my portfolio as foreign minister. There is only one thing to be said here: there is only one member of this Senate—that is, Senator Arthur Sinodinos—who was in a business partnership with Eddie Obeid, a business partnership that saw him disguise his five per cent ownership in a company owned one-third by Mr Obeid and employing Eddie Obeid Jr on its payroll. This is being asked in a desperate attempt by one faction of the Liberal Party to embarrass a member— The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Carr! Senator Abetz: I raise a point of order, Mr president. With great respect, sessional orders do require direct relevance. And direct relevance would require the minister not to seek to obscure the question by referring to others, but deal with the issue as to whether this minister can be treated internationally as a person of probity if he is not telling the truth about his conduct as Premier of New South Wales. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: When there is silence on both sides we will proceed. There is a debate going on at the other end of the chamber which is not assisting the progress of question time. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: I am not giving anyone the call until there is silence, Senator Joyce. And I have got somebody on their feet ready to stand for a point of order before you. Honourable senators interjecting— Senator Conroy: Mr President, on the point of order, the question from Senator Abetz was barely within standing orders. It has a clear imputation that the Minister for Foreign Affairs had been misleading and not telling the full truth, and I think Senator Bob Carr is absolutely entitled to treat a question that broad with the contempt with which I think he is treating it. He is well within relevance to the question that he was asked, and I ask you to dismiss this frivolous point of order. The PRESIDENT: Wait a minute, Senator Brandis. I had Senator Joyce on his feet before you wanting to take a point of order. Honourable senators interjecting— Senator Joyce: Mr President, I rise on a point of order—Senator Faulkner was referring to an Ian Macdonald as a grub. I just wanted to make sure that he was referring to his former colleague and not imputing the character of Senator Macdonald, who we know is not. I can understand his factional ally is a grub. I can understand that particularly. The PRESIDENT: That is debating the issue. There is no point of order. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: I am waiting for silence on both sides. Senator Brandis. Senator BRANDIS: Mr President, you have not, I do not think, ruled on the previous point of order previous to Senator Joyce's. On the point of order, two things. Firstly, Senator Conroy in his contribution concedes that the question was within standing orders by conceding that it was barely within standing orders; it either is or it is not. The PRESIDENT: That is debating. Senator Brandis: Secondly, in your ruling I ask you to make it clear to all senators—but particularly the Leader of the Government—that it is not within sessional or standing orders for a minister to respond to a question by, to use Senator Conroy's words, 'treating it with contempt'. It must be answered. Senator Jacinta Collins: Mr President, on the point of order, this is the third occasion—and to countless points of order from the opposition—that this issue has scurrilously been raised. There is no issue of contempt for the chair. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: It would assist question time if people on both sides settled down. If people feel so passionately about this they can debate it at the end of question time, that is the appropriate time. There is no point of order. Senator BOB CARR: There is only one international implication of the career of Mr Eddie Obeid—late of the New South Wales parliament—and that is that a member of the Australian Senate was in business with him, in deep business with him. A member of the Australian Senate had a five per cent interest concealed and hidden from the public gaze in a company— (Time expired)