Senator BOB CARR (New South Wales—Minister for Foreign Affairs) (14:02): What these Liberals will do, in pursuing their factional fights! In an effort to embarrass Senator Sinodinos, this matter gets raised today. The fact is that there stands— Senator Sinodinos: Mr President— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Sinodinos, you are entitled to be heard in silence on both sides. Senator Sinodinos: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. The minister should answer the question. This is all about relevance. He is not getting to answer the question of Senator Abetz. Senator Wong: Mr President, I rise on a further point of order. I would ask you to consider— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, I cannot take your point of order until the debate has ceased in the chamber. Senator Wong: Mr President, on a further point of order: whilst I have no doubt Senator Carr is quite capable of answering this question very well, I would ask you to consider whether any aspect of that question in fact related to his portfolio. The PRESIDENT: There is no point of order. The ruling is that I draw the minister's attention to the question and the minister has one minute 41 seconds remaining to answer the question. Senator BOB CARR: This is a disgraceful attempt to embarrass a factional figure in the Liberal Party, who was nothing less than chair of an Obeid family company. Senator Sinodinos had Obeids on his payroll. He was chair of a company. Senator Brandis: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. The minister entirely disregarded your ruling that he address the question, from the moment he resumed his answer. And I might point out, Mr President, that when you ruled against Senator Wong's point of order she continued from her seat to shout at you and dispute your ruling. You must assert your authority, Mr President. The PRESIDENT: I reject that. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order, on both sides! The minister has one minute 31 seconds remaining to answer the question. Senator BOB CARR: I would have thought the Obeid reputation was well known, when Senator Sinodinos of the Liberal Party chose to chair an Obeid family company, a company owned one-third by the Obeids, with the Obeids on his payroll. And, further, he pretended that— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Bob Carr, when you are called to order you will resume your seat. When there is silence, we will proceed. The time to debate the issue is after three o'clock. Senator Ian Macdonald: Mr President, I raise a point of order: yet again this minister has shown you the discourtesy of continually turning his back on you and addressing others besides you. Senate requirements are that we address you and address our remarks through you. That cannot happen while the minister has his back to you. It is a lack of good manners. The PRESIDENT: Order! That is not a point of order. I draw your attention to the standing orders. That is not a point of order. Minister, you have one minute 12 seconds remaining. Senator BOB CARR: While Senator Sinodinos had Obeids on his payroll, of a company in which he had a five per cent interest, he knowingly hid this from the Australian public and claimed that as a one-third shareholder— Senator Abetz: Mr President, I raise a point of order. There was a clear imputation against the character of Senator Sinodinos in that desperate answer by the minister and it needs to be withdrawn. To accuse a fellow senator of knowingly engaging in a certain activity is a clear imputation against that fellow senator's reputation and needs to be withdrawn. The PRESIDENT: Senator Carr, I ask you to withdraw that part of the response to the question. Senator BOB CARR: I am happy to withdraw. The PRESIDENT: Thank you. Continue. You have 55 seconds remaining. Senator BOB CARR: Apparently this question was drafted by NSW Liberal Senator Fierravanti-Wells as a way of undermining an opponent within the NSW Liberal Party— Senator Kim Carr interjecting— Senator Fierravanti-Wells interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Fierravanti-Wells: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I think Senator Kim Carr made a comment which reflects on my integrity and I ask you to ask him to withdraw that comment. The PRESIDENT: I did not hear any reflection. If there was a reflection on the senator, it needs to be withdrawn. Senator Kim Carr: Mr President, I am happy to withdraw, but what was the reflection? The PRESIDENT: I do not enter into that; you know that. Honourable senators interjecting— Senator Kim Carr: This is a question that raised matters to do with the integrity of a senator; namely, the Minister for Foreign Affairs. When he responded, all sorts of protests were made by those who drafted the question. It is somewhat hypocritical for senators now to complain when the foreign minister points out the hypocrisy of this question. The PRESIDENT: Order! That is debating the question. There is no point of order. The minister has 45 seconds remaining. Senator BOB CARR: One of the saddest things we witness in this chamber, or any other parliamentary chamber, is the sad effect of factionalism on a once great political party. How sad it is to see over there the factionalism of the NSW Liberal Party manifest: one senator drafts a question for her leader that raises embarrassing matters about the business affairs of another senator— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Bob Carr, resume your seat. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: When there is silence, we will proceed. Senator Brandis: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. The minister is out of order for two reasons. Firstly, he is in defiance of your ruling to address the question. With only 19 seconds remaining, he has not even tried to pay you the respect of observing your ruling. Secondly, when you asked him to resume his seat while you could take a point of order, he entirely disregards your ruling and continues to speak. As I said before, and I did not say it lightly, this chamber is entitled to have you assert your authority over this minister. The PRESIDENT: Order! There is no point of order there at all. The minister has 19 seconds remaining to address the question. Senator BOB CARR: The question raised the issue in this Senate of the Obeid influence in politics and there is only one senator with a deep link with Mr Eddie Obeid—that is, Senator Sinodinos. He chaired the company, one-third owned— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I remind honourable senators that the appropriate time to debate this is post question time. Senators on both sides are not doing themselves any credit by continuing this debate.