Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Finance and Deregulation) (14:02): As I explained yesterday, both gross debt and net debt as a proportion of GDP peak in 2011-12. Obviously Treasury make certain assumptions about the size of the CGS as well as what the relevant interest rate will be in terms of estimating going forward. I would make this point when we talk about budget costings from those on the other side— Opposition senators interjecting— Senator WONG: You are very precious about this whenever anybody mentions the fact that you have no credibility when it comes to the budget, that your economic team keeps delivering mistake after mistake after mistake. Senator Cormann interjecting— Senator WONG: Senator Cormann clearly keeps betting. You always have to take a point of order because you do not want anybody to know. It is very, very precious, isn't it! Senator Cormann: Mr President, on a point of order: I cannot see how the minister's abuse can in any way be directly relevant to the question. My question was why the government has to pay more interest on its debt in 2015-16 than in 2012-13 when they are telling us they will have surpluses over this period. I want to know very specifically, from the minister, whether the government expect government borrowings to go up or whether they expect interest rates to go up or whether they expect both to go up. That is the specific question, and none of the minister's answer so far were directly relevant to the question. The PRESIDENT: Order! I believe the minister has been addressing the question. The minister has a minute and 15 seconds remaining. Senator WONG: Thank you, Mr President. It is the case, if Senator Cormann considers the budget papers—and I assume he has—that there is an increase in 2015-16 in the net interest payment line. This is due to the maturing of a Treasury index bond line in that year. In that year all of the capitalised indexation of the principal is accounted for as interest and this adds to the net interest in that year over and above what normal interest on those bonds would be. This is explained in the budget papers at page 714. We have laid out our path to surplus. We have demonstrated how we will grow the surplus over time every year of the forward estimates. We have ensured that we remain below the level of taxation that Treasurer Costello bequeathed to us. We have made sure we have constrained payments as a share of the economy to a level not seen over the forward estimates since the 1980s. I invite those on the other side who think that the Liberal Party should actually be a party that is fiscally responsible to demonstrate that they are, because at the moment their economic team is characterised— (Time expired)