Senator CARR (Victoria—Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research) (14:43): I thank the senator for her question. She would be asking too much of me to reveal the details of caucus discussions. I would, however, make the following observation. Opposition senators interjecting— Senator CARR: You might play a very neat hand when it comes to stabbing people in the back, Senator, but listen: this is not— The PRESIDENT: Senator Carr, just address your comments to me as the chair. Ignore the interjections. If they persist, I will call the chamber to order and give you the opportunity to speak in silence. Senator CARR: The proposition that should surely go without question is that travelling on the voyage to Australia by way of refugee boats as a result of people-smuggling activity is incredibly dangerous, and we have far too many examples of people losing their lives on those journeys. No-one, surely, could argue with that proposition. Hence I say it is morally reprehensible to argue that we should be turning boats around at sea. It is morally reprehensible to suggest that people should be turned back in these unseaworthy vessels when we know what the incredible risks are, when we know what the extraordinary dangers are and we have the historic experience of the children overboard affair. For that policy to be pursued by those opposite is morally reprehensible. I think it is beyond belief that we have a question like this that suggests anything other than the facts. It is incredibly dangerous. It is a policy position we reject and we want to stop it. We want to stop people getting on those boats, we want to stop people risking their lives and we will do all we can to see that that happens.