Senator BOB BROWN (Tasmania—Leader of the Australian Greens) (14:19): My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence. I refer to the massive cover-up by the Howard government of events at Abu Ghraib. I ask the minister: is it true that Major George O'Kane was involved in drawing up the rules of conduct for interrogating prisoners within Abu— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Wait a minute, Senator Brown. Those on my left, I cannot hear Senator Brown. Senator Brown, continue. Senator BOB BROWN: Is it true that Major O'Kane was involved in drawing up the rules for interrogation of prisoners at Abu Ghraib? Is it also true that his guiding principle was, 'If you break someone down, you don't need them drawing strength from a Red Cross visit'?