Senator AYRES (New South Wales—Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science) (14:17): Senator Canavan, you moved off the situation at Tomago pretty quickly, because the facts at that facility don't support your argument. I would have thought that he would give it a few minutes for workers to adjust to this. But he's like a koala returning to his favourite tree. Senator Canavan interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Canavan, you don't need to call out. I did notice you are standing, and I will come to you. Senator Canavan: It's a point of order on relevance. Both questions have been about, if renewable energy is cheaper, why the cost of energy is going up. The minister is not going anywhere near dealing with that question. That's the crucial question. Senator McKenzie: It's happening everywhere. Jobs are being lost everywhere and you're playing politics. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, come to order! I will draw the minister back to the first supplementary. Senator AYRES: On that part of the question you referred to, Rio and the owners have been very clear in their public statements that there is neither the coal-fired nor renewable electricity that they are seeking in the market at the moment. That has been their statement. There is a competition for green energy in the future from these companies. That is what is— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Canavan, a second supplementary?