Senator McKENZIE (Victoria—Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience, Minister for Regionalisation, Regional Communications and Regional Education and Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) (14:34): Good question, Senator Abetz. Thank you very much for that supplementary question, Senator Green. It is rural and regional Australians and the MPs that represent them that actually see renewable projects in their backyard. We're the ones that have the wind farms. We're the ones that have the solar farms. Senator Colbeck interjecting— Senator McKENZIE: And the hydro power stations, obviously, in areas with a lot of water, Senator Colbeck, like Tasmania. So we know very well the benefits that renewable projects bring to our communities— Senator Watt: Mr President, a point of order on relevance: it's a very straightforward question about whether the Deputy Prime Minister agrees with the view of the Prime Minister. We don't need a long fairytale from the minister; we just need an answer to the question. The PRESIDENT: Senator Birmingham, on the point of order. Senat or Birmingham: Senator Watt, at the conclusion of his point of order, seeks to try to define how the minister should answer the question. It is clearly not the role of the Senate to define how a minister answers the question. The minister, from what I heard in the first 10 seconds of her answer, turned to renewable projects and their impacts in regional Australia. The question, indeed, went to renewable energy. Senator Watt interjecting— Senator Birmingham: Perhaps this just shows that the Labor Party thinks targets don't result in projects or action or change. That seems to be it, Senator Watt. I'm sorry, Mr President. I apologise. The PRESIDENT: Senator Birmingham has apologised. Senator Watt was interjecting. Senator Birmingham: The point being that Senator Watt clearly does not have a point of order in this case. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I believe the minister was being directly relevant. I cannot direct a minister on how to answer a question. Senator McKENZIE: I think it's pretty clear that, if you look at the international evidence and the evidence here at home, setting targets without plans to achieve them or, indeed, the will to achieve them is actually meaningless. So there are a lot of vacuous promises that are made, and the Greens are championing those promises in this place, where countries overseas make very bold, ambitious targets and then fail to deliver on them at all. The PRESIDENT: Senator Green, a second supplementary question?