Senator CORMANN (Western Australia—Leader of the Government in the Senate, Minister for Finance, Special Minister of State and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (14:36): That's the beautiful thing about competition. If big business is not prepared to invest more, there's opportunity for small business. On this side of the chamber we want smaller businesses to become bigger businesses. We understand that every big business today is a small business of yesteryear, and that that is actually the way a successful economy works: it provides the incentive for small businesses to become bigger and bigger businesses. Let me read you another important quote: … lowering the corporate rate for smaller businesses only (as the Greens propose) creates an artificial incentive for Australian businesses to downsize. In worse case scenarios some businesses might actually lay people off to get smaller— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron, on a point of order. Senator Cameron: Yes, a point of order on relevance. This goes to the issue of business saying that only eight per cent will actually invest in jobs and new investment. That's the question the minister should go to, instead of this rhetoric and nonsense. The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron, a point of order is not a time to make a political point, as you did at the end. Senator Cormann is being relevant to the question. Senator CORMANN: I'm interested that Senator Cameron referred to this as rhetoric, because it was a quote from none other than the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Shorten! He said that putting a cap on company tax, limiting it to small business, would be a cap on growth. It would provide an incentive for business to downsize into higher— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Collins, a final supplementary question.