Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS (New South Wales—Minister for International Development and the Pacific) (14:13): I thank Senator Moore for her question. I think what was very clear to the Prime Minister in his discussions with the electorate of Cowper today was that the retirees and the pensioners that he spoke to reinforced the message that they will be thousands of dollars worse off. And, of course, what we see on the front page of TheDaily Telegraph today is that not only are you going to rip out $60 billion from self-funded retirees and pensions but, lo and behold, you are going to exempt your union mates—absolutely appalling! But why does that surprise us. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Fierravanti-Wells, please resume your seat. Senator Moore on a point of order. Senator Moore: Mr President—it's been a while!—my point of order is on direct relevance. Whilst I know the minister is giving us some context, my question was particularly about the number of pensioners in Cowper who had lost their entitlements, if that could be answered in the next minute. The PRESIDENT: Senator Moore, your question began with referral to reports, where you made assertions. You asked your first question, 'Will the Prime Minister be telling pensioners something?', and then you asked the question you just referred to then. It was a very broadly drafted question. I cannot direct the minister how to answer a question nor parts of it. They are entitled to answer parts of it as they see fit. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: I can assist Senator Moore by telling her that the proposed changes that Bill Shorten wants to bring in to penalise Australians who are— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Fierravanti-Wells, please resume your seat. Senator Wong, on a point of order? Senator Wong: A point of order on direct relevance: we'd be grateful, Mr President, if you could enlighten us to which part of the question she is now answering. The PRESIDENT: We only got into a couple of sentences once Senator Fierravanti-Wells got back on her feet. Senator Wong: The question dealt with the government changes to the pension assets test, and there was also reference to the billion dollars being cut from pensioner concessions and the $900 senior supplement. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, the question made assertions about referral to reports that were beyond a statement of fact, yes—that were political assertions. The question asked was, 'Will the Prime Minister be telling pensioners something else?', and then the question was asked about Cowper. We've all had the opportunity to remind the minister of the terms of the question, which was very broadly drafted. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: On the issue of the age pension, we have fewer and fewer Australians paying tax for more and more ageing Australians. Our dependency ratio is being affected and, of course, we have to make some tough decisions to ensure that the age pension remains sustainable and supports those most in need. The pension assets test taper rate has been rebalanced to make the system better targeted and more sustainable into the future. The amount of assets, excluding the family home, that pensioners can hold without it impacting on their pension was increased. In relation to pensioners, let me go back to what I was saying before; that is, the $60 billion tax grab that Labor is taking from pensioners— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Moore, a supplementary question.