Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS (New South Wales—Minister for International Development and the Pacific) (14:51): Senator Bilyk, if you were listening you would have heard me say that I was talking about the introduction of death duties, potentially on the family home. Now, you guys over there have obviously discussed it, because you'll dream up absolutely anything— The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong on a point of order. Senator Wong: Yes, a point of order on direct relevance. I can assist the minister. The direct quote is, 'What are you going to come up with next? Negative gearing on the family home? Death duties on the family home?' We have asked the minister about the first part of the quote, not the second. The PRESIDENT: Thank you for your assistance, Senator Wong. I think the minister has been reminded of the question. I consider her as being relevant to the terms of the question asked. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Senator Wong, quite frankly, you guys on the other side would come up with anything, given the tax hole that you have now dug yourself and given the six years of fiscal vandalism. My point was this, Senator Wong: you have basically declared war on pensioners and retirees, many of whom will be thousands and thousands of dollars worse off, and you plan, as Senator Cormann said today, to double-tax pensioners and retirees in a bid to bail yourselves out of the budget black hole that you cannot pay for. The latest invention: more than half of all refunded franking credits are paid to individuals who earn less than the $18,200 tax-free threshold, including pensioners and self-funded retirees—97 per cent— The PRESIDENT: Senator Collins on a point of order. Senator Jacinta Collins: The point of order is again on relevance. The minister is not in the least referring to negative gearing, which is what the question was. And it leads us to wonder: will she correct Hansard if she claims it is not what she said? The PRESIDENT: I remind the minister of the question. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: It's a bit like The Castle. In the end, you will abolish negative gearing. You are now making an enormous tax grab into the pockets of self-funded retirees who have been working all of their lives, and you are coming along and taxing them. Today it's self-funded retirees. Who will it be tomorrow? That is the point I was making. (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Bilyk, a supplementary question.