Senator BIRMINGHAM (South Australia—Minister for Education and Training) (14:42): Firstly, in relation to the assertion that we have abandoned any children, let me again restate for Senator Lambie: more than 15 per cent growth in funding to Tasmania—funding that will continue to grow in relation to schoolchildren. Let me secondly deal with the issue in relation to higher education. I have to say that working, as Senator Ryan is now doing, to clean up the VET FEE-HELP mess of those opposite was indeed a scarring experience and one that means I am determined to make sure that any future reforms in higher education—to the HELP scheme or otherwise—ensure the sustainability of that scheme, ensure that students are actually getting value for money in whatever education is there and ensure that we put in place measures that guarantee equity of access to students. Senator Lambie: Mr President— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator BIRMINGHAM: Just because you do not like the answer, Senator Lambie— Senator Lambie: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I just want a guarantee that degrees are not going to cost $100,000. That is what I want to know; that is what Tasmanians want to know. Senator Bernardi: I agree with Jacqui—the education system has clearly failed her! The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Lambie, you did ask the minister at the front of your question 'could he please explain,' and several items. The minister has been explaining. Senator Cameron: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Bernardi cast aspersions on Senator Lambie. He should withdraw. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on both sides! Senator Bernardi, I did not hear anything that may have been said, but if you did say anything inappropriate I would ask you to withdraw. Senator Bernardi: No, I did not say anything inappropriate. Senator Cameron: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I do not know what you have to do to cast an aspersion on a fellow senator other than to say that the education system in Tasmania has failed the senator. It should be withdrawn. The PRESIDENT: On the point of order, Senator Bernardi? Senator Bernardi: I think Senator Cameron did accurately reflect what I said. I still do not believe it is unparliamentary, but I am happy to take guidance from you, Mr President. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! On both sides. There are two aspects to the point of order. Firstly, Senator Bernardi did not have the call, and, secondly, it was not directly attributed to Senator Lambie in an adverse way. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Bernardi, so we can progress, you did offer to withdraw if it assisted the chamber. It will assist the chamber if you wish to withdraw. Senator Bernardi: You are giving me an option to opt out, but I will withdraw if it assists you. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Bernardi. That assists the chamber, so we can progress. Just before I move to Senator Wong, we do have eight seconds left. Minister, have you concluded your answer? Senator BIRMINGHAM: I offer an assurance that anything this government has in relation to higher education reforms will ensure fair and equitable access for all Australians of all backgrounds, without having to pay a dollar up-front. (Time expired)