Senator ABETZ (Tasmania—Leader of the Government in the Senate, Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service and Minister for Employment) (14:50): It stands to reason that, if there are stolen monies involved, as asserted, these matters should be dealt with by the police and— Senator Conroy: They have been. She declared bankruptcy to avoid paying it back. The PRESIDENT: Order, on my left! You have asked your question, Senator Conroy. Senator ABETZ: The matter should be dealt with by the police and then the rule of law ought to apply through the court system. We should not be seeking to use the Senate as some sort of other court of law. What needs to happen in these cases for the rule of law— Senator Conroy: You should sack him! Senator ABETZ: and the proper process of law to apply is to not follow that sort of bellicose interjection asserting that someone should be sacked before all the proper steps are taken. Senator Conroy: He is living off stolen money. Senator ABETZ: Talk about stolen monies and living off them—Michael Williamson, Craig Thomson. And where were you, Senator Conroy? Nowhere to be seen.