Senator ABETZ (Tasmania—Leader of the Government in the Senate, Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service and Minister for Employment) (14:00): Let us get one thing very clear: no threat was made. But what I would remind the honourable senator opposite of is his record and the Labor government's record. Indeed, Nobel laureate Professor Brian Schmidt said on ABC radio: I think this is an incredibly important reform. The current university funding model is … broken. He then went on to say: This has been a bit of a train wreck for the last five years. In 2011, on the day I won the Nobel Prize, I brought this up as a challenge for the then Labor government that this was being done on a year-by-year basis, it was being done very poorly … So that of which Senator Carr speaks is a Labor legacy. When we got into government, we found that there was no money left for research and science, or NCRIS, I should say. The money ran out as of 30 June 2015. And, as my good friend the Minister for Finance assisted me with yesterday, on page 88, if I recall, of budget paper— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Kim Carr: Mr President, my point of order relates to direct relevance. I asked: did the Prime Minister authorise Minister Pyne's threats to the 1,700 researchers— Senator Wong: It was a lapsing program. Senator Kim Carr: namely, that they would lose their jobs? The PRESIDENT: Senator Carr, there was an implication in your question about a threat. The minister, first up, said there was no threat, 'Let me be clear.' The minister has 37 seconds left to answer the question. Minister. Senator Wong interjecting— Senator Cormann: So it was a lapsing program, was it? Senator ABETZ: This was a lapsing program, using the words of Senator Wong herself just then. Just then, in a very ill-disciplined interjection, the leader of the Labor opposition in this place acknowledged it was a lapsing program. Which was the government that provided the money to ensure that it was no longer lapsing? It was the coalition, it was us, that restored the funding. So, please, Senator Carr, you who cut science and research in this country by hundreds of millions of dollars have no credibility in this area. (Time expired)