Senator ABETZ (Tasmania—Leader of the Government in the Senate, Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service and Minister for Employment) (14:45): As is always the wont with Labor, they have the headline figure and they have the big announcement. Senator Johnston will undoubtedly recall the big announcements in defence—huge! Huge white paper; defence spending was going to be bigger than anything and then—what?—they stripped $16 billion—$16,000 million—out of defence. So get the big headline as to what they are going to do and then they do the exact opposite. The sad thing is they did exactly the same in the research and development area. Big headlines, big spending and big announcements, and then when you had a look— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. A point of order, Senator Moore? Senator Moore: Yes, Mr President, my point of order is on direct relevance. Senator Carr asked the minister about the link between the decision to cut off NICTA's funding and improving the link between industry and research. It is very straightforward and the minister has 16 seconds. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Moore. I do remind the minister that he has 16 seconds to complete his answer. Senator ABETZ: Part of the question was about the alleged 43 per cent increase. Can I remind the minister that in 2008 Labor cut $63.4 million from CSIRO over four years? The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. A point of order, Senator Moore? Senator Moore: Mr President, again it is to direct relevance. We raised the issue about the links between NICTA funding, industry and research. It is now three seconds to go and it has not been touched. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Moore, but Senator Carr did also ask about the 43 per cent and Senator Abetz was answering that directly. Senator ABETZ: Senator Carr's excuse at the time was, 'Because we are fighting a war on inflation.' (Time expired)