Senator ABETZ (Tasmania—Leader of the Government in the Senate, Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service and Minister for Employment) (14:30): I am regrettably aware of deliberate misrepresentation that the ABCC will have the power to drag innocent witnesses off the street and into secretive interviews. This is simply untrue, false, incorrect. The ABCC will be required to issue a written notice at least 14 days in advance setting out the time, place and manner in which the examination will take place, with the ability to have a lawyer present. A transcript and video recording of the examination will then be provided with a report to the Commonwealth ombudsman for oversight. These safeguards will ensure public transparency and accountability and give the community confidence in the work that the ABCC— Senator Williams: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I am trying to hear the answer to my colleague Senator Bridget McKenzie's question and all I am getting is double-dutch, or 'double-scotch', from Senator Cameron over there— The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Williams. Could I ask senators on all sides to respect the answer and respect the question that has been asked. Senator ABETZ: I do sympathise with Senator Williams, because Senator Cameron was chief defence counsel for all the corrupt activities of the CFMEU during Senate estimates. The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Cameron: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Abetz should withdraw that. That is a reflection that is completely untrue. The PRESIDENT: Senator Abetz, it would assist the chamber if you did withdraw. Senator ABETZ: Mr President, we have two choices, if I may, on the point of order. We have two choices here: one, Senator Cameron objects to being called defence counsel, and I am happy to withdraw that— The PRESIDENT: No, you cannot debate this, Senator Abetz. Senator ABETZ: but, in relation to corrupt activity of the CFMEU, I will not withdraw. The PRESIDENT: Senator Abetz, I will not entertain a debate on that issue. Senator Abetz, it would assist the chamber if you withdrew the remark concerning Senator Cameron and continue with your answer. Senator ABETZ: Mr President, in that case, I will withdraw the comment that Senator Cameron was the chief defence counsel at the Senate estimates. Mr President, let me make no apology for saying that the CFMEU is a corrupt organisation. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Moore, are you raising a point of order? Senator Moore: Yes, Mr President. I will cede to Senator Wong. Senator WONG: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. As I understand, the imputation that is problematic and which ought be withdrawn is the suggestion of corruption on behalf of Senator Cameron. Senator ABETZ: No— Senator Wong: Rather than engaging in 'he said, she said', perhaps if there were any such inference that could be withdrawn. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Wong. What has not assisted is that, every time I have attempted to ask Senator Abetz to consider the comment and that it would assist the chamber if he withdrew, the cacophony of noise coming from— Senator Conroy interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Conroy! This is half the problem. Have some respect for the chamber and have some respect for the chair. That goes to all sides. The Senate is deteriorating, sadly, into a state where we cannot have a question asked or an answer given without constant interjections. It is becoming an embarrassment, quite frankly. Senator Wong interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Wong! That applies to everyone at the moment. Senator Abetz, I did ask, and I would respect it, if you could at least accede to my request of withdrawing. It would assist the chamber in this space at this time. You have four seconds remaining to continue to answer the question. Senator ABETZ: I withdraw. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Abetz. Senator ABETZ: I restate: the CFMEU is a corrupt body and Senator Cameron went to their defence at Senate estimates. (Time expired)