Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:15): I must say, I am very pleased with this question. At estimates last week we glossed over what is a very important subject that was dealt with very parsimoniously, may I say, by a thoroughly disinterested shadow minister. A government senator: He didn't even turn up! Senator Conroy: Ten pages of Hansard! Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my left! Senator JOHNSTON: The fact Senator Conroy would not want to come to terms with is that for the first time in six years the Australian government has put proper resourcing on the table for the Defence portfolio, with a view to rebuilding—particularly the capital account that was so viciously savaged by the incompetence of the last government. What the CDF—if the senator had the capacity to understand the way the Defence Force Remuneration Tribunal works—has sought to do is balance his budget in confronting a number of significant challenges— Senator Conroy: Is a frontline soldier right, or are you? Senator JOHNSTON: given that Labor took Defence as a share of GDP down to 1.56 per cent— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Moore: Mr President, a point of order on direct relevance: Senator Conroy's question was about the quantum of the pay rise and whether the serving soldier was correct or the minister in his statement. The PRESIDENT: I have noticed, in recent days, when questions are being asked in relation to who is correct, a context has to be put around that. The minister is putting context around that question. In relation to that context, he is addressing the material parts of the question. Senator Wong: Mr President, on the point of order: I would respectfully— Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Macdonald; I will determine that. Senator Wong: Thank you, and I appreciate the leniency from the chair, Mr President. A government senator: Indulgence! Senator Wong: Indulgence—whatever you would like me to call it. A government senator interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order, please! Senator Wong: You are so gracious, aren't you? Mr President, I understand the point that you have made. I would ask you to consider whether or not a reference to the capital account, which has nothing to do with wages, a reference to Defence expenditure as a share of GDP, which is not about wages, can possibly be appropriate context to a question about whether or not a front-line soldier or the minister is correct on wage cuts. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Wong. They are not matters for me to determine. I am here to facilitate the questions— Senator Wong interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong, you are reflecting on the chair at the moment. Senator Wong interjecting— The PRESIDENT: If you want me to explain, you have to listen and not constantly interject. Context has to be given to the answer of a question. It is not for me to determine the exact nature or the detail of the context. The mere fact is the minister has been, in my view, relevant to the question. The question had a lot of preamble, in relation to that question, with references. The minister has been referring to those references that I heard in the question. Minister, you have the call. Senator JOHNSTON: As I was saying, what the CDF has had to confront in this very difficult financial, challenging time is that his budget was taken down to 1.56 per cent of GDP. The last time it was there was 1938. Senator Conroy interjecting — Senator JOHNSTON: The shadow minister does not understand the way the system works, because if he did he would know the decision has been reserved. There has been no decision. Senator Conroy: Ten pages of Hansard! It's your policy. Senator JOHNSTON: So getting up and saying there is a cut discloses that you are continually dripping in ignorance.