Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Human Services) (14:44): That is actually a very interesting question from Senator Ruston. While we have been working very hard to promote access to high-quality higher education for tens of thousands more students, the Labor Party, the Greens and the NTEU are continuing to try to run their pathetic scare campaign. Do you ever hear them remind anyone that no-one needs to pay a cent upfront? No. Do you ever hear them seriously discuss the need for reform of the higher education industry in Australia? No. What they do is they roll out absurdly inflated fee levels as part of their scare campaign. But the facts put the lie to that. Senator Kim Carr: They are based on fact. The PRESIDENT: Order on my left! Senator PAYNE: The NTEU's modelling, for example, had undergraduate fees well over $32,000 a year, as I recall. But, as we have seen at UWA, the undergraduate fees will be less than half what the NTEU projected—less than half. (Time expired)