Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:15): It might come as a surprise to the senator—I do not expect her to understand, but this is a corporate entity that has a board of directors, a chairman and a managing director. This is a commercial entity that must comply with governance rules. The government is not going to hold their hand. The government's responsibility is to provide a legal and regulatory framework within which they can work properly in the commercial environment confronting them. The Labor Party would have us go in, hold their hand, put our arm around them and carry them forward, at taxpayers' expense. We will not do that. The blank check of a guarantee is not on. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! When there is silence on both sides. Senator Carr and Senator Cormann, if you wish to debate the issue you can leave the chamber or do it after three o'clock. Senator Pratt has the call.