Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Finance and Deregulation) (14:34): The one thing I will say of that question is it is a little better than Senator Joyce did on Q&A last night when it came to his discussion about debt. Opposition senators interjecting— Senator WONG: I will take that interjection and he was more entertaining than me, Senator Brandis; that is true and guilty as charged. The PRESIDENT: Order! Ignore the interjections and come to the question. Senator WONG: Mr President, in answer to Senator Cormann, I would make this point: the government in which Peter Costello was Treasurer had a real growth in payment record of 3.6 per cent— Senator Cormann: Mr President, on a point of order in relation to the requirement for the minister to be directly relevant: I asked a question about the government's fiscal rules as outlined by the minister in the weekend press. I did not ask a question about what the Howard government's fiscal rules were. We all know about the Howard government's excellent track record when it comes to budget management. The PRESIDENT: There is no point of order. I am listening to the minister's answer. The minister still has one minute and 26 seconds remaining to address the question. Senator WONG: I am happy to discuss the fiscal rules. But isn't it extraordinary in this question time that every time there is any criticism of the opposition they are so quick to jump to their feet! There are a bunch of glass jaws over there. Tell us about the million jobs you say you are going to create without any policies. No, you won't do that, will you? You just come in here with the sort of political smear campaign that we are seeing in the other place. Senator Fierravanti-Wells is including in this chamber— The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, come to the question. Senator Cormann: Mr President— Senator WONG: But I will come to the point now, Senator Cormann. The PRESIDENT: Senator Cormann, I have just asked Senator Wong to come to the question. Senator Cormann: I have a point of order, Mr President. I cannot see how anything that the minister has just said can be seen in any way, shape or form to be directly relevant to the question, which was in relation to the government's fiscal rules which the government has been breaching year in and year out. The PRESIDENT: Senator Cormann, if you have not just heard what I have said, I drew the minister's attention to come to the question. I draw the minister's attention to the question, and you have got 57 seconds remaining. Senator WONG: The senator should note that the average real growth in payments over the four years of the forward estimates is 1.1 per cent. The last time I looked, that is below two per cent. That compares very favourably with the 3.6 per cent average annual real growth in payments, which was the case for the last four years of the Howard government. While I am at it, I would remind the senator that, despite his rhetoric, we are also a lower taxing government. The level of tax to GDP that we inherited was significantly larger than that projected for this year and over the budget estimate period. I know the opposition do not like the facts to get in the way of their chants—they are very good at chanting—but the chants happen to be based on things that are simply not true.