Senator KIM CARR (Victoria—Minister for Human Services) (14:35): Senator Cameron, the government holds the gravest fears for children in New South Wales as a result of the cuts that have been experienced and have been brought about by the New South Wales government. We have seen $1.7 billion reduced from the amounts of support available to children in New South Wales. You ought to get the impression that the New South Wales government is clearly hostile to education. We have also seen the suggestion that they have lost the odd billion dollars and found it again, and now the budget suddenly is in surplus. I would like to see the families of this country who can suddenly discover a billion dollars down the side of the lounge and ask them whether this is the proper way to run a budget of any family. Of course we know the facts of this matter, that the schools in New South Wales— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I remind honourable senators that it is completely disorderly to have this going on across the chamber at this stage. The minister has 11 seconds remaining. Senator KIM CARR: It seems that in New South Wales a billion dollars is just loose change. You should ask the question: what is the impact of these cuts on regional offices, on school cleaning, on availability of teachers— (Time expired)