Senator KIM CARR (Victoria—Minister for Human Services) (14:11): Mr President, the answer is yes. There is irrefutable evidence that investment by governments has made a difference. Look at NAPLAN. It confirms that literacy and numeracy have improved, attendance has improved. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! When there is silence we will proceed. Senator Cormann interjecting— Senator Wong interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! This is not the time to debate the issue. Senator KIM CARR: Labor takes the view that education opens the doors of opportunity for Australians. Labor takes the view that it unlocks the doors of inequality. Labor takes the view that education has to be the first priority of government. However, that cannot be a one-way street. What we have seen in New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland is the exact opposite. John Collier, the Chairman of the Association of Heads of Independent Schools in New South Wales, made the point yesterday: The two goals are totally in conflict … There's no way in the world we can meet the drive for quality that Gonski envisaged like this. It's simply impossible. The implication of such a loss of revenue is that, as far as this state is concerned— (Time expired)