Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Australia—Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:02): I do not think this sort of low-level politics does Senator Abetz any good. The churlish comments about Senator Ludwig pursuing Australia's national interests are, I think, petty. Senator Abetz has asked me this question at least once before, if not two or three times. The Gillard government have made it clear that climate change poses a very significant challenge to our environment and the Australian economy. We, like John Howard in 2007, argue the need for a comprehensive government response. This government has set about trying to build a consensus in this parliament for putting a price on carbon. As you would be aware, we sought in the previous parliament to introduce a CPRS, which was not able to gain the support of the parliament. The opposition, after originally supporting that proposition, rolled their leader and determined to oppose any action on climate change. In fact, the opposition now deny that climate change is a problem; I think the deniers have the numbers. I do not know whether, when Senator Minchin goes, the numbers will turn again. I think you are losing a couple of deniers, and it will be interesting to see how the balance goes. Malcolm Turnbull may be back and the believers might be in charge again. Opposition senators interjecting— Senator CHRIS EVANS: The interesting thing about the new parliament is that we will be able to work out who the mad right-wingers— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Evans, I am trying to get your attention. When there is silence we will proceed. Senator CHRIS EVANS: I know the opposition are sensitive about their flip-flopping on this issue, but I can tell you this: we are determined to build a parliamentary majority for putting a price on carbon and making the fundamental changes this economy requires. (Time expired) Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cormann and Senator Sherry, if you wish to debate the issue you debate it at the end of question time. Senator Abetz.