Dr CHALMERS (Rankin—Treasurer) (14:10): I'm pleased that the member for Fairfax has taken a brief break from undermining his own leader to ask me a question about the budget and about yesterday's decision by the Reserve Bank to keep interest rates on hold, partly because it gives me a welcome opportunity to point out an egregious lie that was being pushed around the gallery this morning on morning media by the Leader of the Opposition. The Leader of the Opposition said, completely untruthfully and dishonestly, that the Reserve Bank yesterday called out the government's spending when it came to the decision that they took independently at the board level. That never happened. In fact, government spending wasn't mentioned by the Reserve Bank governor yesterday. It wasn't mentioned in the board statement. The only mention was in the detailed forecasts which were released, which would downgrade their assumptions about government spending going forward. From time to time, reluctantly, it's on us to point out the egregious lies being told by those opposite about our economy. If they were honest, they would say that the Reserve Bank governor drew no link whatsoever between the government's budget position and the decision that they took yesterday. But the governor, on earlier occasions, has made this point about the government's budget: … we have got relatively low compared with many other countries, relatively low debt-to-GDP ratios. Our deficits aren't—we've had a couple of surpluses and the most recent deficit, in fact, is they're quite small as well. That's what the Reserve Bank governor actually said about the government's fiscal position. While we're on the topic of being honest about the fiscal position, if the shadow Treasurer were honest about the budget position, he would acknowledge and admit and confess that they ran nine budget deficits and we have run two budget surpluses. He would point out that he had average real spending growth at 4.1 per cent; we've got it at 1.7 per cent. He would acknowledge that there were no savings in their final budget, when inflation was absolutely galloping; we found $100 billion of savings, because we see that as part of responsible economic management. If he were honest, he would point out that debt is $188 billion lower, because of our efforts over recent years, than it was under the trajectory that those opposite left us with, and our efforts to get the Liberal debt down mean that Australians are saving tens of billions of dollars in debt interest. So I welcome the question from the shadow Treasurer. I hope he asks me a number of questions about this, because the contrast between our responsible economic management and the mess that they left us couldn't be clearer. Ms Ley: Point of order, Mr Speaker: in his answer, the Treasurer accused the opposition of— The SPEAKER: No, resume your seat. I'll give you the call, but you've got to state what the standing order is. You can't just say you didn't like the answer. Ms Ley: It goes to order in the House. In his answer, the Treasurer accused the opposition of telling lies. It has never been in order to say that. I would ask you— Honourable members interjecting— The SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the House? Mr Burke: There's a whole lot of precedent in characterising an individual as a liar, which was not done. In referring to a comment— Mr Hawke interjecting— The SPEAKER: You can resume your seat, and then you will get the call. Mr Hawke interjecting— The SPEAKER: You'll be able to make that point when the leader finishes. You will get the call. Honourable members interjecting— The SPEAKER: Order! Just take a breath. I'm going to hear from the Leader of the House. Mr Burke: To use the term with respect to a comment is different. Secondly, the Practice makes clear that the point of order is meant to be taken immediately, not at a later moment. Government members interjecting— The SPEAKER: Order, members on my right! The manager is entitled to take his point of order now. Mr Hawke: No, no, no. You are hopeless. You are hopeless and a liar, lying to the Australian people. If 'lying' is in order then 'lying' is in order, and this is a liar. That's what we're debating here, and I'm happy to debate it. The SPEAKER: The manager, resume your seat for a moment. Honourable members interjecting— The SPEAKER: No, just hang on. Hang on, everyone. The Leader of the House raised his point of order. I was giving you the courtesy to raise your point of order. I want you to do it again and state what your point of order is rather than just starting to— Honourable members interjecting— The SPEAKER: Hang on. I'm going to ask you to restrain and to state your point of order. Mr Hawke: Unparliamentary terms—it's well trodden. The Treasurer, on several occasions in his answer, as the leader said, used the word 'lie'. It is well trodden in this House. He accused her directly of being a liar, and when that was raised, as the Leader of the House knows, it's unparliamentary language and it should be withdrawn. The SPEAKER: Okay. We'll get through this. The Leader of the House. Mr Burke: On a separate point of order, the comments that were made, in the earlier moment when I stood up, by the Manager of Opposition Business are seriously disorderly under every definition, including his own. He knows it. He only did it for the purpose of disrupting the House. He did it for the deliberate purpose of being disorderly. The SPEAKER: Okay, this is how we're going to handle this, because I don't want anyone called a liar and I don't want anyone to be accused of lying. The Practice is crystal clear on that. The Treasurer didn't accuse an individual. He called the party— Honourable members interjecting— The SPEAKER: Order! I didn't hear him accuse an individual of being a liar. But I'm going to get you both to withdraw, because what you did was completely unacceptable. Mr Hawke: I withdraw. The SPEAKER: I thank the manager. I'm going to get the Treasurer to withdraw. Dr Chalmers: Thank you, Speaker. I withdraw. The SPEAKER: And I'm going to remind everyone that that word is fraught with danger. Please don't use it. Use other words. Now we're going to move on.