Mr BURKE (Watson—Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Minister for the Arts and Leader of the House) (14:33): I thank the minister for joining me to answer the question. I will say two things on the example that's been given. First of all, in terms of the final line, people don't get forced. Either the employer opts in or the workforce vote to be part of an agreement. That's what happens. People don't get compelled in the way that he's just described. Those opposite think the only person at the bargaining table is the employer. That's essentially what's at the heart of this. That's why they can say 'forced'—because they fail to acknowledge the right of the workforce to be able to have a vote as to whether or not they want to be part of something. But of all the industries about which to come to this House and say, 'Here's an industry where it's outrageous to get pay rises,' he chose horticulture! The SPEAKER: The minister will pause. I'll call the Leader of The Nationals on a point of order. Mr Littleproud: It is on relevance. The question is very specific. The minister is going off in terms of the representative for fruit pickers, which means that he is venturing away from the actual bill and what a representative involved in those negotiations— The SPEAKER: You may resume your seat. The question was about employment bargaining. The Leader of the Nationals has asked his question. He may not like the answer, but the minister is being relevant regarding employment bargaining. Mr BURKE: I don't blame the farmers for this. I don't blame the horticulturalists themselves, because, principally, they've been paying rates to labour hire firms that they had a right to believe were properly paying people. But what has been happening, the worst examples of people being underpaid that we've seen in Australia, has been in that exact industry. The Leader of the Nationals can scoff at it and say it doesn't matter, but, when people are being paid $4 an hour, it matters. When people are being paid as little as that, it needs to be fixed. When people are being paid absolutely appalling rates of pay, such that they end up fishing out of bins to get food at the back of supermarkets, yes, absolutely, we make sure that we will act on those areas. Those opposite, why don't you have one question at some point that encourages pay rises—just one. There have been plenty of questions on industrial relations but not one that has encouraged rates of pay in this country to go up.