Ms WELLS (Lilley—Minister for Aged Care and Minister for Sport) (14:55): I welcome the opportunity to talk about workforce shortages and the numbers of workforce shortages, specifically about those numbers that came out in estimates. I think it was 1 April, off the top of my head, when these numbers were being discussed. What's important to note here is that these numbers were the modelling of the then Morrison government when being told about workforce shortages. The difference is that we are actually doing something about it. We are doing something about workforce shortages. They were given a secret report that, on the theme of today, they chose not to tell people about. They were told the bad news and decided not to tell Australians anything about it but to try to skate through. So, yes, when we're talking about workforce, there are different numbers for different things, and the 869 was for— The SPEAKER: The deputy leader on a point of order? Ms Ley: On relevance, Mr Speaker. The question was: was the member for Hotham wrong or was— The SPEAKER: Resume your seat. Thank you for the point of order. There is no point of order. The minister is referring to the question regarding numbers, the relevant answer regarding last week and the reference to the former shadow minister. Ms WELLS: So, yes, the number is still 869, it was also 869 when you didn't do anything about it, and it is thousands when we add the 200 care minutes, which is the other commitment that we speak about often. The thing to note when they ask us perplexedly where these workers are going to come from is that it is a problem that you chose to do nothing about. You had this problem for years and years and years. It's probably worth asking at this point, when we talk about aged-care workforce shortages, where it all stemmed from. It stemmed from December 2013, when one of the first actions of the Abbott government was to cut the aged-care workforce compact. The SPEAKER: Has the minister completed her answer? Ms WELLS: No, I haven't. The SPEAKER: A point of order from the Manager of Opposition Business? Mr Fletcher: Mr Speaker, the new minister should not be using the term 'you'. That's a reference to you as the Speaker. The SPEAKER: I thank the Manager of Opposition Business for that point. That is creeping into question time. I ask the minister to refrain from using that term and to return to the question. Ms WELLS: If that's the most searing critique of me that they have when talking about aged-care workforce shortages, it says a lot about what they did with their time. The SPEAKER: The minister will return to the question. Ms WELLS: I'll return to the question. When we talk about workforce shortages, this started in December 2013, when one of the very first acts of the Abbott government was to suspend standing orders in the House to cut the aged-care workforce compact, which was one of the first things that cut workers rights and put us on this track. Who was the health minister at that very moment when standing orders were suspended? It was the now Leader of the Opposition. He is the one who was the health minister when they suspended standing orders to cut the aged-care workforce compact, which is one of the things that set us on this path to terrible workforce shortages. We're upfront about this. It will require thousands of workers to come back online to fix the problem. That's why we're trying to give them a pay rise. We will need 869 nurses to meet our 24/7 nursing requirement. That is the question you asked me on Thursday. That is the question I answered. I think, Mr Speaker, you said, 'Want a different answer? Ask different question.' That was the number, broadly, as you well know from the secret report that you chose to do nothing about. Thousands of personal carers, thousands of kitchen staff and thousands of other staff in aged care are going to be required to get to what at the end of the day is talking about a better standard of care. They are quibbling over how we work to get a better standard of care and, really, after nine years of neglect, a better standard can't come soon enough. (Time expired)