Senator AYRES (New South Wales—Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science) (14:02): It's always good to get a question from the Chatswood-Willoughby industrial complex over there! I don't agree with Mr Matos's assertion, nor do I agree with the proposition that has been advanced in such a disorderly way towards what would happen if those opposite ever got onto the Treasury benches again—a disorderly transition. The truth is that the set of imported ideological obsessions that have driven the madness of the internal approach of those opposite is driven by an impulse for drama and social media attention and not an impulse to act in the best interests of Australians. The problem with that wrecking impulse that is so fundamental to the identity of the Liberal and National parties today is that adopting that approach hurts ordinary Australians. It hurts ordinary Australians. It damages blue-collar jobs. It damages industry— Senator Collins: A point of order on relevance. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Collins. I will draw the minister back to the question. Minister Ayres. Senator AYRES: As I said, no, I don't agree with the proposition. I'm not sure how more relevant I could be to the question. The problem is that it is so hard to look away from the series of catastrophes that have been happening over there on the political front. The real risk to Australian living standards and to industry is the sort of arc of activity from there to over there that spells sovereign risk and disinvestment. If you want to have a look at what it would look like— (Time expired)